As we readers continue with Dante and Virgil further through the depths of Hell, moving now from the Seventh Circle into the Eight Circle, we notice a distinct change within the poem, the structure of the underworld and its once-human captives, and indeed within the traveling poets themselves. We enter the Eight Circle, which is appropriately named Malebolge (the evil ditches or well-pits), in Canto XVIII and are immediately confronted with a new reality of sinners and punishments unlike any other we have seen before. In this journal I want you to discuss this dramatic shift and provide textual evidence to support your observations. Here are some prompts to get you started:
-- Whereas the first seven circles were dominated by the lost souls seeking fame (via Dante's writing) in the living world above, these darkened wraiths in Malebolge only wish to hide and be forgotten; as one whom Dante encounters is described, "that flayed spirit, seeing me turn around, / thought to hide his face" (XVIII.46f). Discuss this change in the sinners' demeanor and explain why they have no desire for worldly remembrance.
-- A.T. MacAllister mentions in the Introduction to our edition of the Inferno that Dante's language is coarse and purposely so; he writes, "Dante had established a basic rule that the poet must make his style match his material. In accordance with this we should expect the style of the Inferno to be lower than that of the other divisions [Purgatorio and Paradiso]--and that is exactly what we find" (xxiii). Discuss how the vulgarity of some of the language and words that Dante uses are there simply to expound upon the fact that he is dealing with a vulgar and debased topic, i.e. the sins, sinners, and punishments of Hell. Recall that Hell is a parody or perversion or reversal of all things...
-- Discuss the emotional (or even, physical) responses of Dante and/or Virgil while they travel through Malebolge. Compare and/or contrast these to earlier responses in this Canticle of Pain, as Dante terms it in Canto XX.
-- Discuss the developmental changes within the poem in conjunction with the development within Dante the Poet. Recall our discussion on Wednesday about Dante's conception of his poetic "project" and the "message" he need deliver to his readership; such recollection should help concretize an answer to this prompt.
Here is a funny article from the Onion (seriously... I include this for humor only). It deals with the many circles of Hell and an added "new" one. Take a glance should you be interested in a good laugh... and gathering a sense of the impact on culture that Dante's text has truly had!
Important information regarding The Tempest.
(1) The reading schedule has been posted! Please check the schedule of readings and written assignments page as soon as possible so that you are aware of what segments of this Shakespearean play we will be reading and when. In order to prepare for the field trip I've required that we (especially those of you who have never encountered Shakespeare before) read some prefatory material from our edition of The Tempest.
(2) Remember that we, as a class, are all going to see this play performed live, on the stage, at BAM (the Brooklyn Academy of Music) on Friday, March 12th, 2010!!! Follow this link to see BAM's webpage dedicated to the production, for subway/travel info, and so on. We are lucky to have this opportunity for two reasons. One, the timing of this production is incredible! Not only are we reading this play for our CC 10.02 class, but moreover this is the production's WORLD PREMIERE! Two, we have been granted these expensive tickets for free!!! Therefore, we should not waste this opportunity. To encourage your attendance and goad you even further... I am offering an extra journal credit to those who attend the performance and complete the subsequent "thank you" writing assignment (indeed, we must thank those who have provided us these tickets).
-- Whereas the first seven circles were dominated by the lost souls seeking fame (via Dante's writing) in the living world above, these darkened wraiths in Malebolge only wish to hide and be forgotten; as one whom Dante encounters is described, "that flayed spirit, seeing me turn around, / thought to hide his face" (XVIII.46f). Discuss this change in the sinners' demeanor and explain why they have no desire for worldly remembrance.
ReplyDeleteEntering circle 8 we see many different changes first Dante describes the different structure of this eighth circle. He says "the border that remains between the well- pit and the great cliff forms an enormous circle, and ten descending troughs are cut in it, ...the castle's bridges run from moat to moat to the last bank; so from the great rock wall" (p144). The structure of this circle is very different compared to the last seven circles we have encountered. The sinners receive punches in these 10 different areas. Circle eight is extremely punishable and these souls do not care for the outside world. The quote mentioned in the assignment portrays to the souls not wanting to show their face. They have no where to go and are being punished and beaten for the harsh sins they have committed. Dante describes the punishment of one "steaming from that pit, a vapor rose over the banks, crusting them with a slime that sickened my eyes and hammered at my nose" (p147) Dante has never seen this kind of punishment and therefore he is sickened by it. The souls in the eight circle have sold women and are the worst of the worst therefore they deserve brutal punishment and do not even look at Dante when he comes in. Soon Dante knows that the more he sees the more punishable it is. He is sort of used to it by now.
We, as readers, first enter Malebolge, in Canto XVIII. The circle, as described, is decorated with a wall that ruins along the outside and has a circular pit at its center, in this center, there are ten evenly spared ridges that runs between the wall and the pit. In this part of Hell, "everywhere along that hideous track I saw horned demons with enormous lashes move through those souls, scourging them on that back" (XVIII.34-36). In this Canto, it seems as if the punishment gets more severe than before. One distinct sinner we find in the Canto is Venedico Caccianemio of Bologna. His sin is so horrific that he deserves to be whipped by demons that forces the sinners back into the opposite ridge. In the previous Cantos, it isn’t as harsh. His punishment was for the sin that he sold his sister to a noble. Vendico tells Dante that “there are many more from Bologna who week away” (XVIII.57-58). Another sinner that the poets come across is Jason from mythology. He is being punished for “leaving her (Medea) pregnant and forsaken…for Medea is vengeance taken” (XVIII.94-96). As they continue walking towards the Second Pouch, they hear more cries belonging to the sinners in where the sinners are plunged into the center.
ReplyDeleteVirgil’s emotive response is tested here. Readers are used to seeing him as a sane and innocent person. He is liberal in his own ways. He’s finally able to express his feelings where in the previous Cantos, we only see Dante’s emotive response. We are used to seeing Virgil as the calm ad the voice as reason in “Inferno.” He agrees with the punishment for these sinners. He thinks that they are just and that they deserve what they got in Hell. Dante, on the other hand, is disgusted by what he sees and the sinners' being punished.
We can see that Donte & Virgilaqre going from the seventh to the eight circle we now know their was a distinct change within the poem. The eight circle called Malebolge(The evil ditches. Malebolge is a circle of stone that slopes and are divided into ten concerntric dishes. In the first pit the poet sees Venedica Cacciannemico and Jasonand the second they find the souls of the Flatterers sunk in excrement. They also observe Alessio interminelli and Thais as they passed on. in this Canto it seems like thje punishment gets even worse.
ReplyDeleteIn Canto 18, we move from the 7th circle of hell and are introduced to the 8th circle of hell, known as Malebolge. In this circle, we are exposed to different sinners than we have encountered previously. Dante describes the circle as a “great circle of stone that slopes like an amphitheater. The slopes are divided into ten concentric ditches; and within these ditches, each with his own kind, are punished those guilty of SIMPLE FRAUD.” As Dante walks through, he sees some of the punishment being handed out. “Horned demonds” hurry along those guilty souls with “great lashes.” Dante describes how he encounters “new souls in pain […] new torments, and new devils black as pitch.” Circle 8 offers harsher punishment than we have seen to this point. Dante is sickened by it and perhaps that is the message he is trying to convey, whereas Virgil believes the punishment is just. The sinners do not want to show their face ostensibly because of the embarrassment it would cause. They are being punished for egregious transgressions and are clearly guilty about their actions.
ReplyDeleteCircle Eight is set up much different from what we have seen before. It is divided into 10 ditches and in each ditch each soul is punished accordingly. Also I have noticed that the Eighth circle doesnt have a particular monster that Virgil and Dante have to overcome. In this Canto Virgil acts more passive and sympathatic. We can see that on lines 43-45 where it states "I stopped, therefore, to study him, and my Guide out of his kindness waited, and even allowed me to walk back a few steps at the sinner's side." Previously Virgil was very strict with Dante and expacted him not to ackwnoledge and feel bad for the sinners, but in this Canto we see that Virgil allows Dante to stop and talk to Venedico. Also in This Canto the sinners tend to hide their faces and just wish to be forgotten as opposed to previous circles where they wanted to be ackgnowledged and remembered. on lines 45-46 it states "And that flayed spirit, seeing me turn around, thought to hide his face, but i called to him." In this passage we can see that the sinners want to hide and not let Dante know who they are, perhaps being so shamefull.
ReplyDeleteAs they travel from Circle 7, to Circle 8 the punishments tend to get worse. They go from seeing people walk around in circles, to people being made into trees, and then in Canto XX circle 8, the people have there heads turned backwards, so that when they cry there tears fall down there backs. Dante expresses a lot of emotion for these people, and sheds a tear when he walks passes through this circle. Virgil has a different reaction. He tells Dante to have no pity f'or them, and feels no sympathy when passing through this circle.
ReplyDeleteL 27: Still like the other fools? There in no place for pity here"
Besides the difference between Dante and Virgil's emotions, there is another huge part of the Canto's to point out. As the Circles get deeper, the reasons for living in hell get worse. In the early circles, people are placed in Hell for not being Christian, or cheating on a loved one. Then the reasons for landing in hell got worse. The people placed there were killing others, killing themselves, or those violent against god. Further in the souls are abused. Its interesting to see what other reasons there are for landing in Hell. Its odd to me that murder against other and yourself would only land you in circle 7.
I agree with David about the punishments being more severe as we see Dante and Virgil move from Circle seven to Circle eight. The Malebolge, Dante's name for the Eighth Circle, furthers our understanding of the circular, funnel-shaped landscape; it's graded very steeply downward towards a low, central pit. Before arriving at the center, the pit, the Dante and Virgil have to make their way into and then up out of 10 deep ditches, or "pouches", that make up the eighth circle. In Ditch one, demons whip the pimps and the seducers as they shuffle along. “I saw horned demons with enormous lashes moved through those souls, scourging them on the back. Ah how the stragglers of that long rout stirred their legs quick march at the first crack of the lash!” (Canto XVII 35-38). In this canto, it seems as if the deeper the hell, the harsher the punishments; One of the notable sinners we encounter here is the classical figure of Jason, who features prominently in Greek mythology and is being punished for deserting Medea and in revenge she kills their two sons. “it is Jason, who by courage and good advice made off with Colchian… There he left her, pregnant and forsaken: Such guilt condemns him to such punishment, and also for Medea is vengeance taken.” (Canto XVIII 86-96). As Dante and Virgil start moving along to the second pouch, the sinners howl and fight among themselves. They’re so nasty that their sighs turn into mold that grows on their bodies and this however is where Virgil’s emotive response comes about. He actually participates and agrees with the fact that the sinners belong where they should be in the lower realm of hell. Similar to what David says, we are so use to seeing Virgil as this calm passive kind of poet in other cantos but here in this canto, Virgil actually examines these sinners for himself as he goes along this journey. He is no longer showing signs of just reasoning, but of passion and feelings that these sinners deserve to be severly punished.
ReplyDeleteAs I had mentioned in class last week Monday I believe that we are starting to see a new shift as far as we are seeing a new and far deeper dept of hell. Moving to the 8th circle of hell we are now beginning to make encounters with souls that we have never seen before. We see here a different kind of emotion played out by Dante that we haven’t really seen before in the pervious cantos. Here we also see the reasons for being in hell to be far more serious, these being considered violent acts against God himself. The fact that this circles physical architecture has a cliff in it may help to say that where the location is may be the very end before the Pitts of hell. It seems as if these sinners hid their faces from Dante because they were embarrassed. XV111. 46 And that played spirit, seeing me turn around thought to hide his face, but I called to him: “you there, that walk along with your eyes on the ground”.
ReplyDeleteUpon reading the notes about line 47 in canto XVIII, I discovered that the identity of the spirits PRIOR to this point was not asked to be forgotten, rather the spirits wanted to be remembered. According to Ciardi's notes, it is at this point that the spirits asked to be forgotten with few exceptions. When an evil spirit does step out of line, Dante displays anger. Case an point is the following quote: "You there, walk along with your eyes on the ground-" (pg 145). Dante recognizes this spirit as Venedico Caccianemico, which is interesting considering that along with the anger he feels as the sin Caccianemico has committed, Dante seems to care about the human being that he once knew. Proof of the fact that Dante still cares about Caccianemico is his inquires regarding the sin that was committed.
ReplyDeleteAn interesting quote that is worth examining caught my eye in this Canto. The following quote pertains to the bit about course language: "'move on you pimp, there are no women here to sell" (pg 146). I found that this quote was very brash and is an example of the style that Dante writes in. He write in a very colorful, expressive yet vulgar language, for the purposes of expressing the true feelings of Hell (which he apparently felt at the time this poem was written in).
This quote shows the masculine nature of Hell considering there were "no women here to sell" (to reiterate above quote). This quote alludes to female domination of planet earth (which shows Dante's respect for women) considering the following question: if there are no females in Hell, then where do the females reside? The answer is Earth.
In addition to this hypothesis, the meaning of the word "pimp" has changed greatly. Whereas at the time that this poem was written in, the meaning of the word was derogatory, nowadays, it is a slang term used in social circles to describe a man who has successful conversations with multiple women.
Before when Dante would feel pity for the sinners Virgil would not respond in any way but when the poets reach Malebolge we see this changes. In Canto XX when Dante weeps when he sees how harshly the fortune tellers and diviners are punished Virgil reacts and finally tells Dante "Still? still like other fools? there is no place/ for pity here. who is more arrogant/ within his soul, who is more impious/ than one who dares to sorrow at God's judgment." Perhaps Virgil thinks that Dante has already seen enough punishment that he should already be used to it and understand that God created this therefore he should embrace it as he embraces God.
ReplyDeleteAs Dante and Virgil go through every bolgia in the later Cantos, it seems fascinating to me that Virgil has all of a sudden taken an active role to support and encourage Dante to observe almost each and every bolgia. The most exemplary example I can give is in Canto 19 when Virgil literally carries Dante down to a lower level so Dante can speak with one of the sinners that are in bolgia three. Another moment when Virgil encourages Dante to observe and see if he remembers anyone there in Canto 23 when Virgil says “As we go on, may it please you to look about among these people for any whose name or history may be known.” (l.70-73) As for emotional response; Both Dante and Virgil seem a lot more interested in these lower depths of hell because of their physical response. In the earlier Cantos Virgil would simply keep walking and stop to let Dante observe and take in his surroundings such as in Canto 19 when they were in the city Dis; Dante was talking to a shade in a coffin while Virgil was ahead. However in these later Cantos Virgil encourages Dante to check out the spirits as if to create an excuse so he can observe the shades in these pockets of hell also.
ReplyDeleteThe eighth circle is somewhat different from the previous seven circles. This circle is called Malebolge, it has a wall running along the outside, which has a circular pit located in the center and it is divided into 10 separate “ditches” of punishments known as Bolgia. The punishments here are severe; they are for sins of fraud, violence and deception of women. Some sinners are hung upside down in tubes-like holes or have their head reversed for trying to look into the future. We also start to see a difference in thinking between Dante and Virgil. Slowly Dante is starting to speak his mind and not just listening to Virgil anymore, who is suppose to be his master. We are seeing a softer side of Dante, where he illustrates his emotions, disregarding that fact that Virgil looks down upon it. It is about time that Dante stands up for himself and not be Virgil pet. If he doesn’t believe that something is right, he shouldn’t do it. I like the fact that we are starting to perceive the difference in Dante the character and Dante the poet.
ReplyDeleteas we notice the descent of Virgil and Dante through hell, there is a significant change in Dante's emotional response he changed from a person of is intimidated and frightend by the images of hell he is seeing,to a person who wants more punishment for some of the people he meets as he goes further into hell. This radical change shows us that Dante has grown wiser and more acustom to the images of hell, and is accepting them one after the other. Truly the punishments are getting worser and worser and Dante should have morre fear inside him then the begining of the journey, but on the contrary he does not show that much fear as he has shown us in the begining of the story. I think that the presence of virgil by his side is a very vital peice of the puzzled emotions he has shown throughout the cantos, by Virgil being beside him Dante if able to better process and understand what his eyes are seeing.
ReplyDeletePreviously in Canto vIII when Dante is in circle 5 The Sullen he mocks them and ridicules the damned when in the past he would feel pity for the souls. With the previous sins he was able to relate to. As Dante goes deeper into hell he begins to leave behind his feeling of pity.In Cantos xvIII Dante is recognizes Venedico Caccianemico and Alessio Interminelli da Lucca and points them out and doesn't show anger in the sins they commit but still has that human aspect of him in which he could relate resulting in him feeling pity,"And that flayed spirit, seeing me turn around, thought to hid his face but I called to him: "Youthere, that walk along with your eyes on the ground -if those are not false features.."
ReplyDeleteCanto XXVIII finds our poet in the midst of a new set of crimes, those who have created discord on earth. The most interesting character in the Canto would be Mahomet, a different spelling of Mohammed, the founder of Islam. Further proof of Christian propaganda, Mahomet’s arrival into the 8th circle shows that he is one of the gravest of sinners, along with a few others who incited strife amongst the citizens of earth. “And all other souls that bleed and mourn along this ditch were sowers of scandal and schism: as they tore others apart, so are they torn (Dante, 236),” writes Dante of the sins of the punished. I was impressed by Dante’s use of Mahomet and Ali, for it shows the discord amongst the Abrahamic religions during it’s time.
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ReplyDeleteIn Canto XVIII, Dante provides us as readers many details about the look of Malebolge. He tries to paint as much of a picture as he possibly can. From the previous readings we already learned that Dante's attitude is shifting. He went from feeling pity, to basically agreeing with the punishments that were provided to each sinner. He has expressed his thoughts previously, but within this canto there have been interesting quotations that further express Dante's emotional state. During line 108 Dante writes "sickened my eyes". He was trying to describe the smells and views but his choice of words highlights his emotional state. We also get to experience Virgil's emotional state throughout the text.
ReplyDeleteI like the quote that Diego highlighted :"Still? still like other fools? there is no place/ for pity here. who is more arrogant/ within his soul, who is more impious/ than one who dares to sorrow at God's judgment."
It is interesting to see emotional outburst from Virgil. He is supposed to be the calm guide. Initially he was set up to act as just the guide, but as the poem continues we get a deeper view into Virgil's character.
In Canto XXI, line 66,Vigil is both afraid but also in control of his fear. This the first time we see him like this. He has always provided Dante emotional and spiritual support but now, he's himself going through what Dante goes through. This shows that we are entering the deeper circles, the darker, more terrifying eighth circle. In line 68-69, Virgil is threatened by the canine. Virgil tries to appear completely in control, by using words that show this in line 82. He answers to the devils' cry by boldly responding and quickly alluding to the divine nature of his descent into the depths of Hell. There is a firmness in his voice showing his complete control of the situation, line 88-89. Dante sees and fears the demons' threat because he's still alive and vulnurable. Virgil continues on as if the demons pose no danger, line 93.
ReplyDeleteThe language of the devils reflects their vulgar, mischievous nature, line 100-102.
In lines 118-123, the literal meanings of the devils'names reveal their ambivalent nature, both comic and threatening. While they inspire fear in virgil and Dante, their words and gestures are light and playful.
i find raju's comment very interesting i did notice some Islam being brought up in chapter viii when "i already see the glow of its red mosques," a mosque is an Islamic church.This made the story a bit more interesting being that i am Muslim.I admire Dante's writing and love how he's able to put in characters such as Mohamet and Ali in a book based on Christianity.
ReplyDeleteTo add to what Mohammad said, I fully agree and think its great that Dante makes connections to religions besides Christianity. We as readers however must remember that this is (as you mention) a book based on Christianity. I find the quote that follows that to be an interesting one, as it states: "and my all- knowing Guide:'They are eternal flues to eternal fire that rages in them and makes them glow across this lower Hell" (pg 62).
ReplyDeleteI find this quote to be worth examining for a variety of reasons. First of all, what is a flue?
Upon searching for the meaning on dictionary.com, I discovered that this word means a passage, a tube, or a pipe.
I conclude that Dante is totally devoted to his Faith and believes that all others are sinners and belong in Hell.
In the eighth circle of hell I noticed a dramatic shift in Virgil and Dante’s relationship. Throughout the Inferno Virgil has displayed some father like qualities toward Dante. However, in this circle I noticed that at some point in most of the Cantos Virgil either protects embraces or scolds Dante (as a father would do to a son). Dante also goes into much greater detail about these instances to further point their relationship out. We find Dante speaking about his longing for Virgil’s approval more and more, “And I think, indeed, it pleased my Guide: his look/was all approval as he stood beside me/ intent upon each word of truth I spoke” (XIX. 115-117). We also see more displays of effection and Virgil’s nurturing instincts to protect Dante. “Seizing me instantly in his arms, my Guide¬¬—/like a mother wakened by a midnight noise/ to find a wall of flame at her bedside/ (who takes her child and runs, and more concerned/ for him than for herself, does not pause even/ to throw a wrap about her) raised me and turned” (XXIII. 34-39). “My Guide and Master bore me on his breast,/ as if I were not a companion, but a son” (XXIII. 41-42). He becomes more cautious for Dante as they build a strong bond throughout their journey. This is significant being Dante the poet was orphaned and exiled; he is portraying his relations with poetry as a replacement for human effect in his real life.
ReplyDeleteAs Dante and Virgil move into the 8th circle we see a major shift in the forms of punishment. It is separated into 10 ditches, with each ditch being a different punishment for the souls in them. Not only do we see a change in the harshness of the punishments but we also see a change in Virgil as he becomes less sympathetic. Instead of showing any type of concern, Virgil feels that the sinners deserve the punishments they are receiving. At one point Virgil tells Dante,
ReplyDelete"Still? still like other fools? there is no place/ for pity here. who is more arrogant/ within his soul, who is more impious/ than one who dares to sorrow at God's judgment."(L.20-30)
This is Dante telling Virgil, not to feel any remorse for the sinners because they deserve the punishments they are served because they "dare to sorrow at God's judgment". Also the sinners are clearly embarrassed by their actions as they don't show their faces.
In the previous circles Dante felt some sympathy for the sinners being punished. However as he entered circle 8 his mentality towards to punishments changed, he started to accept the fact that these people deserved to be punished. He was no longer sympathetic towards the sinners. For Dante circle 8 was the worst because it was meant for the people who live in deceit. Just like Pope Benedict who got punished for stealing and lying to the church. Dante was extremely against the corruption in the church which is why he placed historical people, such as the Pope in circle 8. “And all other souls that bleed and mourn along this ditch were sowers of scandal and schism"
ReplyDeleteDante and Virgil are now in the eighth circle which was divided into ten ditches of stone in which punishments are received. The encounter of Pope Nicholas III and Dante in canto XIX is important because the reader is reminded of the terrible punishments occurring in the eighth circle. In particular the reader can simply visualize these punishments which makes it more intense as Dante's journey progresses. This can be observed in the following lines as the Dante is talking to Virgil his guide. "Master," I said, "who is that one in the fire who writhes and quivers more than all the others? From him the ruddy flames seem to leap higher" (line 30). This line is an example of the results of severe punishments performed in this circle. Later the pope talks to Dante, and says "Beneath my head are dragged all who have gone before me buying and selling holy office; there they cower in fissures of the stone. I too shall be pluged down when that great cheat for whom i took you comes here in his turn. Longer have i baked my feet" (line 75). In comparison to the seven previous circles, I noticed that in the eighth circle there is more violence and harming others and you can feel these punishments. Meanwhile in the first circles is more about harming yourself with lust, one's desires. The seventh circle is about violence, and in the eighth the reader understands more of fraud, which tells me that as the punishmenrts are more severe, fraud is considered worse than the violence itself. The reason is because violence acts which are usually act upon emotional distress as oppossed to fraud, where a person can actually plan to harm others. It also has to do with morals and ethics. These concepts that Dante describes in The Inferno, are used today because if you think about it, one of the worst things that someone can do is treason, and in the ninth circle, Dante considers it the worst as betrayal.
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